UI Changes
Aug 24, 2016
Time for another fascinating and action packed Thimbleweed Park dev video. This time we're going to talk about our latest change to the ui.... removing the sentence line.
I resisted making this change for quite a while, but when I finally got around to doing it, and played the game for 10 minutes, it became clear this was the right thing to do. Everyone who's played the game since likes the change a lot.
We've done some playtests since this change and it's interesting because no one comments on it. When I bring it up at the end of the playtest, there is a little bit of shock that they didn't even notice. It just felt right.
I guess that's a good thing.
- Ron
P.S. Here is a bonus GIF to show what happens when the cursor gets to the edge of the screen, since a lot of people are asking about that.
One of the nice things about the traditional sentence line is that I don't have to look at it if I don't want to: I can focus on the graphics themselves, and only refer to the sentence line to confirm my action before I click. With this roving sentence line, there's now a bit of text constantly changing and following my cursor around the screen.
OTOH, the new font looks really great, and adds some nice flavor to the game that helps to distinguish it without deviating functionally from the traditional SCUMM interface -- so I definitely want to keep it, but equally want to ditch the mouse-chasing description of what I'm usually already aware I'm doing.
And with the option to turn it on/off it's perfect even for the most "conservative" and nostalgic players ;)
Very well done, as always ;)
CIAO!!
So I think this is a logical step!
At least that's what happened with SCUMM games until Tentacle.
It's sad to let it go, but I have complete trust in what you're doing.
Hmmm...I also wonder what the purpose of highlighting suggested verbs when mousing over an object? Will you be able to select that instead using a different button? If so, how will that work with a touchscreen?
The suggested verb feature has been there since MI1: by pressing the right mouse button you could fast-select that particular verb on the object.
Good question regarding the touchscreen, though!
I'm wondering if this changed happened at the engine level or at the SquirrelScript level.
I can imagine it to be clipped pretty 'early' otherwise?
But also I can imagine it to be quite a great improvement (yes, I am very imaginative).
When I played a few SCUMM games via ScummVM on my phone a few years ago, there was a cursor which moved to the same direction that I wiped in with my finger. It was comparable with controlling the cursor via a classic touch-pad. So, the sentence line worked well.
Thanks to the cursor, it still felt classic, even though I would have preferred a physical thumb-stick, because your hand delimits your view. Furthermore, I also prefer physical buttons for the haptic's sake.
It's simply more natural, I agree with this change.
However... when the interface switched to classic mode, my mind flew away, back to the glorious moments, with that mix of joy and nostalgia.
I believe that I will play with the modern UI for 10 minutes, then switch to classic UI to feel "the undiscovered adventure lost in desk drawer", as if it was in that time... and then switch back to modern UI, to better focus on the game!
I was very skeptical about the previous changes made to the user interface, but thanks to the classic mode options everyone will get what he/she prefers. While I'm still not sure whether I'll use the new font or not, I must admit I've grown to appreciate the transparency of the UI.
Coming to this change... I really don't like it. The reason for it is that it somehow breaks the immersion to have the sentence line appearing next to the cursor (the cursor itself has a bit of the same effect, but hey, that's something which has to be there so coping with it is not a choice).
It's different from dialogues, when my attention sort of moves away from the art and focuses on the dialogue itself.
Moreover, when exploring a new room, I have always enjoyed that brief instant when I realized something was a hotspot and tried to guess what it was just before my eyes rushed to the sentence line.
Anyway, this is just my humble opinion. Will I just get used to it in time? Who knows. In the meantime, kudos for the freedom of choice we are given. These details show how Ron, Gary, David, Mark and the whole team care for their fan base.
Loved the idle animations and.. WANTED: "Huh? A meteor?"
Well, making it an option is obligatory, of course. Though, I still have a question in this regard: What would I do, if I prefered both the newer GUI and the classic sentence line? Is the sentence line bound to the "classic" interface? It would be nice to be able to combine any option with any option. For instance, I would furthermore like to try the "pixel mode" with the newer verbs interface.
When you change the UI setting to "hardcore", a loud gritty voice (as if from some FPS game) says "Hardcore!!!". Okay, that's maybe more dumb than it is funny.
I still like the "full screen with transparent verbs" decision for TWP. I'm also sold on having the sentence compile near the cursor. I'm not so convinced about the "directional door arrows" and the "hotspot 45° double-cross" decision, though.
Btw. I want to have part 2 of the video! Or is he afraid to get stuck at those INSANE action sequences?
Since they are now remastering the game I hope they complete this series.
And they should also remove "teleportation", I think it takes you out of the game. Maybe add running on double click instead which keeps you traversing the world faster but still in realistic manner.
I've got no opinion about teleportation. It's like a jump cut in movies and well, dunno.
You're right with the sentence - when the sentence completion is triggered, that's just as good as having the cursor change. I actually liked the red exit indicators in FT, but I don't like the (probably temporary anyway) 1px wide up-pointing arrow we saw in Ron's video. And the 45° hotspot cursor, mh, well. Now thinking again about it, I realize, my concern is more about how it was graphically done here - again, probably in first pass anyway - but I'm generally okay with what it does and I'll probably like it after polish.
If a game has teleportation like FT than I will most likely use it: zipping through the screens, getting from one end of the game world to the other in no time.
It doesn't help to make you feel you are really in this world, I think it breaks the immersion very much.
A feature to speed up the process is OK (and I would recommend it), e.g. running like in Sam&Max Seasons 2 or later.
Or if you can explain it with game logic like in Simon the Sorcerer (Magic!).
I agree that the cursors look at least unusual. Maybe it will change until release. But probably I would get used to them anyway, whichever way they end up looking like.
Sam&Max Season 2 added running (if I remember correctly). When playing Season 1 afterwards it really sucked not having this feature...
Also when testing things in older adventure games (though not really during normal playthroughs) I often make use of this "fast" feature in ScummVM when going from room to room.
i.e. games with a lot of running around (large rooms, a lot of rooms connected in series, a lot of backtracking) should probably implement a similar feature. I don't know if TWP needs it, but that's something testers should already know.
In Thimbleweed Park, you can double-click to run, but, for a first few hours of the game, you will need to walk around the world, getting to know it. Then you solve a puzzle that allows some limited ability to teleport around the world, but it's all in the context of the story and world. It's not magical teleportation.
Because it comes later in the game, after players have built a mental map of the world, it feel OK and it's a great moment. It's also something players have to "discover" so that is also a great feeling.
This would be a tremendous enhancement to our devblog experience.
Expectation levels would definitely skyrocket in my bloodstream to critical amounts.
Thank you a lot!
People will love it, I swear :D
Is the dark blue font for actions only available in classic mode? Actually I like this darker font because it does not grab so much attention. The lighter blue font looks nicer - indeed. But its an eye catcher and thieves my focus...
As written above I like the simple font style more for playing. The new one looks nice but it reminds me of a neon ad.
Same with the new cursor! It looks nice as well. But also here I probably will use the classic style with the fixed text line. It's less intrusive.
So I go with the more classic UI. (Does that mean I really getting old? Hmmm....)
It does look like you'd get a different groove from playing the game, scanning the area more quickly with the mouse rather than pausing and looking at the sentence line.
I wonder how the change came about...were you like, okay, the sentence line is nice, but we're 2016 and we can probably improve that...
Nice suggestion!
He wonderfully demoed the game at Gamescom (wohoooo!).
We even had a chance to play it a bit ourselves and were introduced into controller-schemes (it's come a long way since 1 button joysticks it seems).
http://martinwendt.de/gc16/
I like the eye acting between Ray and Reyes on the screenshots.
The dark little corner, the game was presented in, seems to be well hidden indeed. I agree, that it wasn't a good place for presenting a game.
I just read on your Caren page that Robert had helped you with translation, proof-reading and testing. That's interesting!
Oh man. Fourth wall dialogue, I see: "...You can tell by the pixelation around the nose and neck."
(Smiles, but also rolls eyes).
Was that some retro-gaming going on? An Atari 2600 Jr. and a Commodore 64C?
OT: I just realized that you work only one building away. I always wondered whether / when I spot someone wearing a TWP t-shirt here in Germany. It seems, chances are quite high....
I found when playing/working on DotT Remastered that I didn't enjoy how much having the object name hover near the cursor would occlude things and pull attention away from the environment/cursor.
The description you have here is much less obtrusive, but from watching the video (which is no substitute for playing!), it still feels like it pulls the eye away from the cursor itself, making the cursor style for interactable items much less prominent. Those aren't necessarily bad things, but I feel like on a hypothetical point and click adventure of my own, I'd probably have designed a different type of cursor if I'd planned to have things work like this from the outset.
It's always good to shake things up and explore new approaches. I'm glad to hear that dropping the sentence bar is getting good feedback from testers and I'm definitely looking forward to seeing and thinking about how the new interface works when I get to play :)
After falling out of my chair at the sight of the new sentence line, I was moments away from seppuku when you saved me with the "classic mode" availability. Thank you.
Something caught my eye in the video; the odd walk path of Angela Ray from the posters to the drawers (at ~00:55). The depth of the desk and Arrestotron 3000™ (back leg of desk, front leg of A3000 are on the same plane) wouldn't allow Angela pass so fluidly.
Shenanigans!
Also it feels a bit blinky. Maybe if the text could float slower than the cursor, rather than being attached or have a trail. It might be different when moving the cursor oneself, but when watching someone else play it feels a bit too seizureinducing for my taste. In the classic version the flickering is further away from the center of attention and it feels a lot more meditative that way.
Will you somehow be able to gather information with which options turned on/off the game has been played? It should give valuable information for future projects. Or for geeky statistics.
My suspicion would be that this would be way more annoying than the current solution. But I agree that it looks kind of twitchy (though when you play it yourself, your perception might be very different). One way of making it less twitchy would be to show the text relative to the hovered object, rather than relative to the cursor.
Please ensure that the cursor text is BEHIND the character's lines! :)
'nuff said.
Is there a reason to keep "Walk to"?
But starting from Monkey Island, the user interface has been renewed (two times! Version 1 had 12 verbs, while version 2 only 9) so the WHAT IS verb had no sense anymore.
For that reasons, improvements to the UI are welcome, up with the times, with the right compromise.
Conclusion: this changement in the UI of Thimbleweed Park is good.
Also I'm fine with not removing "Walk to" verb completely but just the text, I'm not that crazy :-)
Maybe just show "Walk to" for exits? This would highlight the consequence even more. (btw. you are also performing a "Walk to" when clicking on the floor/background but it doesn't show the verb in such case)
Since after performing a verb, the verb defaults back to "Walk To", "walk to" could be implied without having to always see "Walk To" on the screen. You wouldn't necessarily have to keep reminding the player that if s/he does not select a verb, they will be performing the "Walk To" verb.
OOOH! Ron should implement a "hardcore" mode that doesn't let you see the names of objects or sentences. The only text you see is dialogue. Maybe you could see the object name only when it's in your inventory.
My 1st impression being.. why is there text on top of my cursor now? if so.. why doesn't it change its icon (crosshair -> tool) )
Anyway it is freeing up space and eye-coordination time. So I like the idea.
It can't be: in 1987 the GameBoy was not yet released.
Good, i can change it. I will spend more time on the setup as on the game ;)
So personally, I like this fine tunig of the UI very much and it totally respects the "old Lucas Style".
On the other hand, a game (or any project, for that matter) is really a bunch of rules and constraints imposed upon the player (or user); it's *the opposite* of a blank canvas. These restrictions are meant to create a fun experience (or do something useful) according to the authors' vision---which is what we're all after. Otherwise, you can go on forever: add the ability to change the UI, to change the sprites, to change the sounds, to change the story, to change the logic, etc. and in the end you'll be left with no game at all. Give enough freedom and you'll be left with a Turing machine. :)
The mirrored word is, actually s(z)eRRiF, with two R's and just one F.
Another Thimbleweed Park Mistery that will take away the sleep of fans?
Please, Mr. Gilbert, make an option to write "sheriff" on the door and to correct all other intentionally mispelled words in the game, I don't want to feel guilty for some people :-)
By the way, it is wrongly spelled “Sherrif”. The last time I saw this spelling was in a medieval age TV series…
Team, was this on purpose, or is it a mistake?
Sheriff is ALWAYS at his office. You need to get some documents from his archives, but sheriff is reluctant to give you those. Even though you are an FBI agent. What to do? You know his pride and joy is the lettering "SHERIFF" on his door.
You need to get paint removal to get those letters removed.
Once you remove the letters, the sheriff phones to letter painter. (make sure you remember the tone he dials)
Figure out what was the number sheriff called to.
Call to letter maker.
Convince him you are sheriff's assistant, and sheriff is adamant the wording should be "Sherrif", and the S should be reflected Z.
Once painter has completed his word, watch the cutscene, where sheriff goes berserk. He goes to hunt down the painter.
Enter sheriff's office and browse his archives to find what you are after.
I know that there is a classic mode :)
Also I'm feeling a little bit sorry for that particular hand...
But it looks like everyone has taken it pretty well...
I think this works either way, sentence line or on-cursor both seem fine to me.
But it's minimal. So no matter.
What matters is that I can't get used to the floating sentence line. it distracts me.... I'm sure I will get used to it and I'ill prefer this than the classic mode (since I'd like to have the new font), but.... It'll be awkward at first.
Sorry, team.
However, the idea to have the crosshair change on an object is nice imho.
What about just having a non-broken crosshair on an object,
e.g. the four lines snapping together forming a 'real' cross: + ?
P.S. Showing the text is a great thing.
P.P.S I'm so looking forward to that game!
http://bit.ly/2c0t4pM
Boobs icon, for the guys!
Butt icon, for the ladies!
We can hover-over them and watch them jiggle!
They are redundant in modern mode, and detract from the classic feel in classic mode...
Or it is like the testers found out. playing it feels right. Not easy to say, just seeing a video.
But I have to write this too: The Cursor really feels like to much. Lines everywhere and additionaly an arrow showing the direction you will pass through a door. I guess i know it without that too.
Yust a collor change for highliting objects or something else that is more discret. Reminds me a little (liiiittle) bit to an egoshooter but just looks like to much.
However, am I the only one who wants to play the game for the feel, not the look? I mean, of course we all want a bit of nostalgia (that's what brought us here, isn't it?) but if I wanted a 100% old-school game I'd play Maniac Mansion again. I'm here for the puzzles and the humor, I really don't care if the UI gets improvements or if the resolution isn't actually 320x200.
They all were part of a magnificient adventure game.
Then, the graphic part could change, to fit our time.
But since the best adventure game ever were created with the verb and inventory items always on screen, in big pixels, with the sentence line above the verb, I feel happier if I see all of them, because it reminds me those times.
But improvements are always welcome.
As I wrote before, I probably will play 10 minutes with the new interface, then switch to the classic one, to return the the new, and play the game as they creators intended to be played.
Though, I don't really know yet, which way of playing the game I will prefer. I'll try all of the options first. I'll even try the game with a control pad, even though I'm much more familiar with the mouse. I assume that there will be days when I prefer the more classic appearance with a 4:3 aspect ratio and other days when I prefer the modern options and Full HD in order to enjoy contemporary conveniences.
I completely agree that it would take a great deal of effort to make it work according to desire, especially in terms of the GUI, which has been optimized for 16:9 ab initio. Moreover, 4:3 is actually as dead as VGA. I'm now just looking forward to enjoying the game in 16:9.
How much I loved old point'n click adventures to be here wondering how a text on a cursor should be? I surprise even myself.
Today I have, by chance, been listening several hours of 80's music via my JBL GO, and I just realized I like the music of this era better when it's played through the small mono speaker than through my big hi-fi surround speakers.
I was just thinking... will I find the same analogy while playing Thimbleweed Park? Will I go with don't-follow-cursor-lines-pixel-purist-give-me-all-the-basics-option, or will I go with all the hitech-stuff there is? I'm listening my small mono speaker and I think (although new UI change looks good) that I might go with the stuff that's closest to what we had 25-30 years ago. But it's great we have options.
If only we had an option to switch sound to 80s mode...
Btw. there is a another little Retro Point & Click Adventure on Kickstarter atm: http://goo.gl/Wr42CA
A little more pixels than thimbleweedpark, but looks quite funny I think.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/9p6guz6yigm5v01/Thimbleweed_Park_new_ui_1.png
It has a smaller font, and when it overlaps with art, there doesn't seem to be enough contrast to quickly process the text. I noticed this especially for the inventory.
But I can't complain, since you're leaving in the good old classic UI, of which I also prefer the plain blue font anyway! Thanks Ron :D
I hope most other people enjoy the new UI though, I can definitely see your reasoning behind this.
it is great that you keep the fall-back-option for all non-80s-features but in the end it is your decision.
I for one (despite living in the past, gaming-wise) can totally live with it when you say:
THIS is how I/we made this game. Different sizes for pixels. Light effects. Pixelsize scaling with actors. Rotation of pixel-gfx in 'subpixel' space. Sentence-line at pointer.
In fact I would even prefer to play it the way that you intend/prefer, no matter what my personal taste on few things might be.
It's not an adventure-game-kit, it's an adventure game ;-)