Dialogs, Hints and more...
Jun 20, 2017
There is a new Thimbleweed Park update (Build 1388.918) that includes two major additions and several minor ones. This build should be live on Steam and will be live on GOG in the next 24 hours. Due to approvals and reviews, it will be a few weeks before it makes it to the App Store and Xbox.
The first big change is player character dialogs. You can now TALK TO Delores, Ray, Reyes and Ransome. There was no point in adding Franklin dialogs, since you can't really talk to him, and he had one-sided stubs for trying to talk to other players.
This was something I attempted during initial production but abandoned due to me being unable to think about it as anything more than an a overly complex hint system. It always felt to me that all you'd want to do was talk to the other characters and get hints, and the early iterations of the system really showed that, so I abandon it. Time was also getting short and there was a lot of work to be done, so it wasn't matter of me writing player dialogs or hanging out at the beach.
This turned out to be a mistake. I should have pressed forward and implemented this.
Allowing the characters to talk to each other actually solved a bunch of problems. It was crystal clear (in our heads) why they were working together (or didn't care if they were), but that wasn't clear to players. This is especially true with Ransome. Ransome is an asshole. Why would he be helping?
Player character dialogs solved this problem. You now can chat amongst yourselves while spouting plot clarifying lines. If I had a few extra months I would have made them ever more complex, but maybe they don't need to be. I'm sure someone will complain that they didn't talk about X and that is plot critical. Maybe. Maybe not. I do think the dialogs help tremendously and I regret not pushing forward and implementing them from the get-go.
The other slightly related feature we implement was greetings. When Ray walks by Delores, she will say a quick one line greeting, same for Reyes, Ransome and Delores. None of these are plot revealing, but do make the world feel more alive and real.
The biggest change was a new in-game hint system. I know this will cause the hardcore adventure gamer's blood to boil (as it does mine), but the lack of hints was widely criticized by some of the more casual press. As we move to new and more casual platforms like iOS and Android, this becomes increasingly important. I guess it's a sad fact about not only modern gamers, but older gamers that just don't have 18 hours to spend on a game.
The first (failed) iteration of the design was based around a new object called the "HintTron 3000™". You would find it alongside the road and pick it up. You could then use it on any object in the game and it would give you a context appropriate hint.
On paper, it seemed like a good idea, until the first implementation and the problems came roaring out. The biggest problem was when you're stuck it's often at a conceptual level and you don't even know what object to click on. This could cause players to randomly click on stuff, hoping the get a hint with no real idea what they needed.
To stop non-stop hint-clicking, we added some friction in the form of a "cooldown", but it felt artificial and frustrating. We thought about adding a "currency" you find or earn (specks of dust), but these all ran into the issue os rarity and frustration when you can't find or earn them and you need a hint.
So we abandon the idea. David wrote a lot of code for this... so... a moment of silence.
To me, the most important part of any in-game hint system is making sure it feels like part of the world and game. I didn't want to do a hint system that was all UI based.
Back in the 80s, we had hint books with red gel, but we also had phone in hint lines.
Thimbleweed Park already has a working phone, so it seemed natural to just have a hint line number you could call and get a hint.
We once again toyed with the idea of a currency. You're using a phone, so finding money to use it made sense, but unfortunately, the phone is needed for other things and we didn't want to muck up all that with making them all pay phones, plus some of the phones are in the mansion and hotel. We beat it around for a bit, then just decided to making the hint line "free" to use.
Calling the phone provides some natural friction, in that you'd have to get to a phone (or switch to whoever had the cel phone) and make a call and trip down a hint tree.
The advantage we had over a true 80s hint line was that we know the context of where you are in the game, so the hint line can be smart and focus down to hints we know you might needed, and ignore spoilers and other distractions.
Jenn volunteered to take on the job, and we based it (with permission) on the existing online hints of Meghann O'Neill, so we had a good starting place. It's a nice system and hopefully newer players find it fun and helpful.
Now, we know it's not going to be for everyone, but it is 100% optional in that you just don't call it. But I know one's willpower can be weak. If you set...
When you call the hint line, the phone will just ring and ring.
One tricky issue is old save games. To fully implement the AI of the hintTron, we had to add some new variables to track game state. If you load an old savegame, those variables don't exist. Jenn wrote some fancy code to try and predict an old savegame's state. It works 90% of the time, but if you load old games, hints might not be 100% accurate.
And lastly, I implemented some new keyboard commands.
1-6 will now selected dialog choices or they can be reassigned using...
keyChoice2: "2"
keyChoice3: "3"
keyChoice4: "4"
keyChoice5: "5"
keyChoice6: "6"
You can assign keys to cycle through characters using...
keySelectPrev: "9"
You can now disable initing of the controller by adding...
If you don't have the willpower to avoid calling the new hint lines, you can add...
There we more keyboard commands (like the numpad) that I ran out of time, but I'll save those for another update... because god knows, I can't stop working on this fucking game.
That arcade machines will make it into the next major update, probably when iOS and Android are released.
Come talk about it on the Official Thimbleweed Park Forums.
- Ron
About the hint system: I think it's OK this way. And its existance.
A millenial I know started to play TWP in casual mode, he liked the game and he is at Part 3, but now he's stuck (because he DOESN'T READ!). I think he will use the hint system, because I refused to give him the solution to the puzzles :-)
When will the Android version come out?
Regards,
Jeremy
You guys and girls are awesome!
Thanks for the update, also for the writeup here on the good ol' blog. The forum is nice, but very time consuming. So its great to still get some updates at the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow.
p.s. at some time in the future you have to stop working on this game, George.
(hint: next game :)
I tried having the characters talk to each other almost immediately when first playing the game, and was a bit disappointed that it didn't work. It wasn't a big issue, but I think it's excellent that this is going to change now -- and I'm squarely in the "why IS Ransome helping them" camp as well (Delores was less of an issue for me there, she's a nice girl after all), so I hope it's going to clear up a thing or two. (Until now I've simply assumed that, asshole or not, he realized that they had the same goal and that working with the others would be to his own benefit.)
And the hint line -- great idea. I've resisted using hints and spoilers, but I'm not a veteran puzzle solver, and sometimes I got stuck for a long time before figuring out the solution. Having the option to get hints for people who've got less time/patience can only be a good thing and make Thimbleweed Park accessible to a wider audience. (And if anyone complains about the hint line's existence... just point 'em to Part IV of Monkey Island 2; that's prior art right there!)
TL;DR, here's a big "thank you" to the entire team for continuing to work on the game, adding to it and improving it even now. You rock!
Just freaking awsome.
Makes me start all over again
Did I says Thanks? Thanks.
I will talk to everyone :)
Damn I hate hints, but I have to try this too. :D
Now, I do hope those playable arcade games are still in the works.
It's always a good feeling, when the developers of a game continue to care about it (and time and money allows you to do that)!
If I may add one suggestion for a future update:
Could you please enhance the save game dialog to allow players to create more save games?
Maybe add two clickable arrows to navigate through them page by page.
With that feature, after finishing the game without hints, I could load the different save games and call the help line. Just to see, what they are offering at the different stages of the game!
Greetings
Firebird
Also... Did you add new lines to Sandy and Dave? After I left their restaurant, Sandy had some nice words for Dave, and I don't remember that from my previous play throughs.
You know (too late to do anything now), Thimbleweed Park maybe could be even more interesting, if the game drive would come from playable characters interacting. You know, the puzzles could be pretty much the same, but the driving force could come from conversations between PCs and NPCs (as it is now) & especially PC and another PC. The conversations between playable characters could build the story and the gates to larger world and further puzzles could be opened only if characters would combine their knowledge of their findings. Would be more like in movies.
BOILING!!! BOILING!!!
For the n00Bs, obviously. If you played adventure games in the 90's and use this 'feature', you have no soul nor ethics. You should be shun from gaming… and society in general.
Finally after 30 years I'll find out how "DIE ENEMY, DIE" ends…
Switch to this new RSS thing which is what all the cool kids use!
Thanks!
I've noticed on Twitter that you (Ron) are amazed how other devs can up and go vacation once the product ships ( night in the woods ) but your commitment to this - however much of a hell it must seem to you, only sets in stone your legacy.
That might not convert into dollars, no meritocracy in game devs such is the shame, however you are touching thousands of peoples lives with this whole project.
It won't pay the bills, but that *must* be worth something.
End sycophantic ramblings.
You *bleeping* rock Mr Ron Gilbert.
These are exceptions. I had no vacation since 3 years. (And that last vacation was only a week in a big city...) So, Ron: You are not alone! :)
What game did you work on? Seen you on these blogs etc, what advice would you give to Ron David Gary, Jess et al for the aftefwork of making a game?
Sorry, I would like to remain anonymous. (I'm too easy to find on the internet. And probably you would be disappointed...)
"what advice would you give to Ron David Gary, Jess et al for the aftefwork of making a game?"
Include the work needed after publishing the game *and* the vacations in the schedule when starting the development. Convert vacations into deadlines. It doesn't matter if a small bug stays in the game for a week. If someone is complaining about the bug, let David/Gary/Jenn/someone/mail-a-tron3000 answer "we are working on it".
Beside that, Ron et al seem to have a far better time management then I have. ;)
Buy the way, my comments were never aimed as a negatory on you.
Yep. :-) But my work is fun. No, it's even better: I get payed for having fun. ;)
"Buy the way, my comments were never aimed as a negatory on you."
My answer wasn't meant harsh or negatory either. :) I just want to remain anonymous at the moment.
That's great! I wish everyone could say that, but I can't complain.
> I get payed for having fun.
Oh, so you aren't working in the games industry.
If you turn your hobby into your (daily) work, you don't have to work anymore. ;)
You can set...
hintsEnabled: 0
...in your Prefs file and the phone will just ring and ring when called.
Once you open Pandora's Jar...
One thing: Could you inform us via a blog post when the Xbox update ist online?
Also I lamented the lack of keyboard support for dialogs. So nice to see it's implemented.
And the hints couldn't hurt.
Cheers.
I would have personally made the hint line a paid DLC, not for cash grabbing, but because that would have reflected more how hint books actually worked in real life.
Also to discourage people from actually using them. As an old gamer, even the "to do" list in the inventory of the characters was a bit too streamlining, for me, but whatever.
Cheers,
Matteo
I may have encounter a bug due to this last update... the number given in the flyer for the secret meeting in my saved game starts with the 4 digit of the hint line...when i try to enter the 6 digits in the keypad of the electrified gate i can only enter the first four (4468) but not the last two.... is that due to the link between the keypad and phone... or am i missing something ?
Cheers,
You either have to wait for a bugfix or you could restart the game since this code is randomly generated.
I'm glad this discover can help for the next patch :)
They don't work over the weekend, if you want new versions immediately you have to download them using GOG Galaxy.
you are some *beep* geniuses, this adventure was probably the best I played until now (and I played a lot of adventures)!
I loved it, maybe more than Monkey Island. Well, sort of. I'm not sure, really, because I love Monkey Island too, LOL.
Well, I just wish you to know that.
Please, don't stop now... give us more adventures! And do it soon, we aren't young anymore, we can't wait a long time for it ^_^
Giovi
p.s. I bought (not pirated) the game. I also bought (most of ;-) the Lucas adventures I played, in the past, including M.I.
p.p.s. next time I will be a backer (what a shame, I wasn't a Thimbleweed Park backer!)
1. Some right click actions seems wrong (highlighted action is "talk", but I get a "look" if I click right on aperson for example)
2. If the character starts to talk after a right click action, then in 80 % of the cases the character stops talking in the middle of the sentence
On a side note - not sure someone already mentioned it in the forum: Judith Holofernes has released a video for her song Analogpunk which references several computer games, including Thimbleweed's signature shot at the bridge.
Also, just discovered your tweet about the switch port, so I'll halt my gameplay and wait for it (the convenience of the portability si soooo big :D).
Look forward to your next title!!
When will the Android version come out?
Regards,